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Post by Jared Enderton on Sept 23, 2010 17:35:07 GMT -5
"I would guess there were many more ex- football players who competed at a high level crossover to strongman. I do not know of many oly lifters (granted my knowledge of oly lifting as far as individuals is very low). "
I would absolutely agree more ex-FB players went to strongman. Why? Because 99% of them were bruised and beaten 300lb. lineman who dont have nearly the genetic make up to move like an oly lifter and I am guessing would take them close to a year just to get the flexibility required. A MUCH larger % of the population can do strongman because it doesn't require nearly the extreme athleticism & speed like oly lifting does (IMO).
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Post by Jared Enderton on Sept 23, 2010 17:49:23 GMT -5
Phil... you say
"Speed: I think good Strongmen can complete a stone series very fast. So fast I may even say, "That guy is fast!" Same thing with carrying events. Or even pulling events. All speed is relative. Try comparing Mr. Bolt to a Cheetah. You can't. You have to compare him to other humans in the same event. Now I don't know this, but I bet all Olympic lifters move the weight from the floor to above their head at about the same speed. Which would make speed and non-issue. Yes, for the lift you have to have speed, but everyone possesses approximately the same speed. I say edge goes to Strongman. 1-0"
Then you say:
"Speed: I'd say this one goes to the Oly guys. I don't think it is required any more than Strongman but if you don't have speed you'll miss the lift in Olympic lifting. In Strongman you'll just get last place. Which is almost as bad as missing a lift. 2-2"
Just kind of confused?
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Post by Jared Enderton on Sept 23, 2010 17:52:30 GMT -5
"I bet all Olympic lifters move the weight from the floor to above their head at about the same speed. Which would make speed and non-issue. Yes, for the lift you have to have speed, but everyone possesses approximately the same speed."
The snatch is completed in LESS than 1 second by elite lifters... less than 1 second. Speed is a HUGE issue. It is a huge part of the equation for Power Output. Everyone does not lift it at approximately the same speed either... There are some pretty vast differences between even the top guys as far as rate of force development and speed of the barbell. Even the lower level elite guys complete the lift in less than 1 second... Think about how much speed you have to generate on a barbell in order to do that? The bar is on the GROUND.. and you put it over your head in less than 1 second. Speed? I can't think of any strongman event where anyhing is even close to happening in less than 1 second.
(not saying speed is the sole factor in athleticism).
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Post by Jared Enderton on Sept 23, 2010 18:01:33 GMT -5
"But I don't see the bar moving really far or really fast."
THe snatch is HANDS down the absolute fastest lift in the entire strength world.. completed in less than 1 second. The clean & the JErk are almost equally fast (and faster than ANY strongman movement there is).
Also- you have to consider that the weight on the bar is always about 2x more than their bodyweight once you are talking about the elite level guys (some are WAY more)... and they are still completing the lift in less than 1 second, and the clean is extremely fast too, just over a second (well, a lot are actually under a second) to get under the bar. The jerk? By far the most violent aspect of olympic weightlifting (and explosive).
The speed they generate on the bar is far greater than any lift in strongman (if you consider the weight on the barbell you would be extremely surprised at how fast they can much HUGE loads).
Also- The bar isn't moving very far? There is really only 1 strongman event in which a bar/apparatus moves farther... That is during the keg toss.. at which the loads are at what, 8-12% of their bodyweight? is that more athletic or is somebody lifting a bar that is 2.5x their bodyweight over their head in <1sec (snatch) - 5 seconds for a clean/jerk (clean usually about a second, jerk is the same, but total lift depends..maybe 5-10 s)?
I mean taking the barbell from the ground to overhead is the GREATEST range of motion you can do with a barbell (realistically/smartly).
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Post by Jared Enderton on Sept 23, 2010 18:03:41 GMT -5
I texted Colin this earlier (And this goes to you also Phil).
I am NOT disrespecting you guys or the sport of strongman in any way. Heck, I did it for over 2 years. So please do not take any of this to heart. I am just talking out loud basically
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Post by brendanmoehn on Sept 23, 2010 20:35:59 GMT -5
This is pretty intense guys. I haven't had a chance to read quite everything so sorry if I repeat something or don't put someone's thoughts in this.
First off I think you could make a solid argument that strongmen are better athletes than oly lifters, but not by arguing that it's because of their speed, agility, and quickness into the picture I definitely have to give that to oly lifters. and the whip of the bar is only because there is crap tons of weight on the bar. If there were set ways of looking at athleticism it would be a lot easier.
I played basketball with some of the national lifters when I was in China and they were extremely agile and quick. Even in certain sports it varies. strongmen would be very athletic linemen in football while oly lifters would probably be better suited as receivers.
Basically they are both great athletes. Oly lifters much faster and agile while the strongmen are very poweful and great on their feet.
I would keep writing, but I'm hungry!!! gotta eats
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Post by cwetlaufer on Sept 27, 2010 7:31:15 GMT -5
While watching America's strongest man this past weekend there were a couple of things that really stuck out to me in regards to this thread.
1. There has been a ton of talk about lifting a barbell OH. While it is very athletic, and a snatch is very athletic (no disagreement here at all), I think it is much more athletic to clean and press a block, or for that matter most odd objects. Watching the block press it became very clear who really had POWER and who didn't. It was an interesting addition to this discussion. The functionality of the training styles, Clean and Press things with a barbell in the centerline of your body, vs clean and pressing an odd object like a block, or a keg requires different levels and types of athleticism.
Having said that I realize there are bruts who have crazy triceps who just manhandle the object. But for example Tom McClure (the definition of a non-athletic strongman, but a crazy brut) could do nothing with the blocks.
2. Anyone who believes, or has never thought of a strongman as fast has never seen Mike Jenkins compete. 60' 330 farmers cylinders to 60' 800 lbs frame in 13 sec?.......second place I believe was 26 sec.....as Jared said, maybe others are slower, but there was at least one there who was not only fast, but IMPRESSIVE with his speed.
3. Gym lifts mean nothing in strongman, the better athletes win at the high levels most of the time. Again, Tom McClure, the strongest static strength athlete at the contest, wasn't much of an "athlete". Marshall White/Matt Dawson/Mike Jenkins/David Hanson/even Poundstone, athletes.
I'm not saying these are definitive arguments or anything, but getting to see America's strongest man, which was by far the most athletic pro contest I've seen up close and in person really solidified my opinion.
If someone compared it to for example, the Arnold, I could see why they would feel the other way.
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endo
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Post by endo on Sept 27, 2010 10:10:52 GMT -5
POWERLIFTING HANDS DOWN...sidenote..bench shirts BARELY inflate actual gym numbers
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endo
New Member
The King!
Posts: 27
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Post by endo on Sept 27, 2010 11:44:36 GMT -5
NFL defensive backs and halfbacks Fighters Most track and field athletes Not Tiger Woods
Love this post.
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phil
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Post by phil on Sept 28, 2010 7:13:52 GMT -5
Yeah, I met moving speed and lifting speed. Sorry for the confusion.
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Post by Jared Enderton on Sept 28, 2010 8:19:43 GMT -5
Guys,
Please don't take any of my posts disrespectful. It's just me spouting off at the mouth all the random thoughts in my head. Heck, I did strongman for 2 years and the initial reason I got into strongman was because I thought it took more athleticism than oly lifting!
Obviously I can convince myself of anything, and this is no different haha!
and Phil- That's what I thought you meant.
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Post by Jared Enderton on Sept 28, 2010 8:20:00 GMT -5
I am glad we all agree bench shirts are the best way to gain REAL strength.
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phil
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Post by phil on Sept 28, 2010 9:03:31 GMT -5
I have a 6 ply bench shirt in transit. I'll let everyone know how super strong I get.
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Post by cwetlaufer on Oct 7, 2010 15:24:54 GMT -5
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phil
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Post by phil on Oct 9, 2010 14:03:57 GMT -5
Wow, that's really interesting. Good find.
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