Bulgarian system

[Jared Enderton]

I believe IA still lives in CA.. Ironmind always had updates about IA living out there and doing some general coaching, not directly over athletes, but moreso advising the coaches how to coach is what i understood (since he was banned from directly coaching athletes from all his athletes positive drug tests).

[vincedecker]

Ah, thanks. Cool.

[vincedecker]

ironmind.com/ironmind/opencms/Articles/2007/Jun/Ivan_Abadjiev_Adapting_Well_in_California.html

Missed this one.

[Jared Enderton]

I forgive you.

[vincedecker]

You're too kind.

[Simon klimesh]

According to Abajiev, greater physiological changes occur to the weightlifter's body as a result of a competition than a day's training work even though the training involves (fatiguing work) up to three times more loading than the competition. Since, the lesser loading, but qualitatively more specific work of competitions results in a physiological "stress" that produces greater strength for weightlifting, Abajiev planned control competitions every 15 days for the national team at their training facility. According to Abajiev, "If you want to get good at competitions, you practice competitions".

[vdecke]

An observation, which is just something to think about and discuss:

This is a difference I have observed between our "beloved" lol old Bulgarian System and most current American systems. Seems like, back in the day, the Bulgarians (and others who followed similar systems) would come into a big competition and actually hit LESS than they were lifting in the training leading up to the contest. They would carry 3 - 5kgs extra BW and if they wanted to hit (for instance) 160/200, they would have hit 165/205 mutiple times in the weeks leading up.

In an Ironmind video, you can see an over weight Ivan Ivanov C & J'ing 175 a couple weeks before the 1998 WWC, in which he does like 160 (off the top of my head). Naim actually did more than his famous 190 in the training leading up to the 1988 Olympics (he actually cleaned something like 202.5). There's a "secret" Bulgarian training tape out there which supposedly shows multiple team members training over the world records for their weight class somewhere in Asia right before the 88 Olympics.

I know it's an apples/oranges comparison in a way considering the "restoratives" used in this system, but it seems like sometimes we (in America) beat ourselves up day after day, taper and then hope for a boost of 10-20 kilos over our training weights leading up to the show.

I am still formulating my theories about how weightlifting training should be done, so I am just throwing this out for discussion: should the American lifter/coach consider less frequent (so the lifter is fresher and able to put forth a big effort) but heavier and more intense training sessions in order to get to or even above what is hoped for in a contest? In other words, make the max training weights easier than what the contest "goal" is? Obviously this would also increase the confidence with heavy contest weights. What do you all think?

[cwetlaufer]

Good thought Vince-

IMO-

There are VERY few athletes in the world who can show up to a contest and consistently hit huge PR's. For the majority of athletes, in any sport, but especially strength sports, there needs to be a supreme level of confidence before something can become a foregone conclusion. I.E.-a PR weight in a meet.

Now, I believe this often gets confused with hitting a PR because the lifter was never REALLY tested in training. Less then ideal training conditions, spotters/partners/fatigue are all factors which change dramatically.

If you think about the profesional lifters of old (and kind of today in other countries). Their job was lifting/recovering/lifting. Their training was part of their routine. The largest time they expierienced stresses, would have been at a contest.

Now take a modern day American. Most has a day job, bills, spouse/partner, etc. The actual competition may be almost a moment of stress relief.

But to hear stories like Steiner in the last olympics...had to hit his third for a PR to win gold....I believe there are VERY few people who could accomplish something like that.

[vdecke]

I'm glad you chimed in. I thought about the old theory with Strongman training where you train above the contest weights so, hopefully, the show seems easier than your training has been. Of course that went out the window when most contest weights became impossible for mere mortals lol.

Obviously, learning proper technique is a huge factor in success, so the above idea would be more of a benefit to someone who has a high degree of mastery of technique. Though a person can have great technique at 80% of max and look a lot different on max attempts - which is another argument for tapering more often during training and making big attempts before the contest.

[Jared Enderton]

ooh boy, stirring the pot. I will post once I Get some more time on this. Very interesting take.

[Jared Enderton]

There is a certain degree of "undertraining" That may take place in lifting only 3 days a week as well...I mean it is definitely interesting. Like you said: comparing us to what the bulgarians used to do is useless...we all know why.

With that being said I think there is a fine line to be honest. 3 sessions a week MAXing out is too little. However, 12 a week MAXing out is too much (for clean, american athletes). There is a fine line of being in the proper "training" state. You don't want to be overcooked and come in sluggish into a meet, yet you dont want to come in only having attmepted your goals maybe 2 times in training. I tend to error on the side of a little more, for the reason of you give yourself more opportunities to be successful (Set a PR).

I think there is a fine line. That fine line is EXACTLY what I believe Cal Strength is doing haha. Seriously though. no pro athlete in the world only does their craft 3x/week. Now, I know Vince youre saying maybe 3 days per week are the days where you go balls out on THE LIFTS. But, I would still say on the other days (at lesat 2 of the other) you are hitting 85%+. Because it is NOT that taxing on your body! The oly lifts don't stress your muscles like bodybuilding/strongman/powerlifting. IT is concentric only (pretty much). Which makes it entirely possible to hit 85%+ on the "off" days (the non 3 days per week), and can actually keep u primed/in a great training state.

[Jared Enderton]

Vince- would you say you are still under that belief system? Has the last couple months made you change your mind, or, has it reinforced what you already believed?

[vdecke]

It's been really interesting observing and getting input from a variety of sources and trying to formulate what will work in America and what might not. I don't advocate doing the lifts only 3 days per week, but still believe a lifter has to be fresh enough to grow into bigger lifts in training and therefore be used to those weights come contest time.

I also think that programming should be individualized because lifters with the physical potential and mental toughness to endure in this sport are a precious commodity in this country. We don't have the numbers necessary to train like the Bulgarians did, burn most of them out and put the survivors out on the international stage and kick ass. So, I think we should take all the ideas from the program that would work for a natural athlete and add some ideas of our own.

I think accessory work (triceps, abs, dynamic shoulder and back strengthening exercises) should be added to the sn, c&j and squat, depending on each individual's needs. I'm not even saying all those things for every lifter, just what they need to get stronger in the classic lifts. I like the idea of making sure the athlete has enough energy to attempt PR or near PR attempts at least once a week in training, maximal efforts in the classic lifts 2 more days per week and mock competitions every two weeks (probably on Saturdays) where a special effort is given under contest-like conditions. 80-85% on the classic lifts another 2 days per week (between the big effort days) and/or accessories on those days as well. I think two-a-days 2-3 times per week would be good for that priming factor to get get ready for the big afternoon efforts.

Just a little quickly off the top of my head. I have more specific ideas, but am modifying the ideas all the time. Haha I don't know a lot yet.

[Jared Enderton]

VdeckE,

Are you saying that you believe in kind of a mixture of a bunch of different programs? Take all the best aspects from different programs and combine them? Take the frequency of the lifts from say Glenn Pendlays/John Broz's program, yet take some accessory work/frequency of lifting days from say Kyle Pierce's program (down in Shreveport, Lousiana)?

Sounds like a damn good idea to me!

[Jared Enderton]

What are everyone else's thoughts on the bulgarian system???