Interesting Article on the state of Oly Lifting

[cwetlaufer]

articles.elitefts.com/articles/training-articles/olympic-lifting-why-do-we-suck/

This is an opinion article. I am not saying I agree with anything in it, I just found it interesting.

The discussion that goes on at the bottom is very interesting as well. (FYI-the poster "Colin" who references Cal Strength is not me, I did not comment on this article)

....................

Discuss.

[phil]

Well technique can only take you so far. Sure, improving technique will increase your maxes but at some point you have to gain strength and just working technique isn't a way to accomplish that. I had never thought on focusing my training around my weak lifts. I think it's only a good idea if your weakness hurts other lifts significantly. For example, if you have a really weak back (lower or upper) you should definitely focus on getting it stronger since it's a major part of every lift. On the other hand, if you have something like a weak chest I would think it'd be a waste of time trying to get that muscle stronger since it has little carry over.

[Jared Enderton]

YES! LOL. I saw this a couple days ago and have read every single comment on it, and pry every comment on every thread related to it out there lol.

Honsetly, it has GOT to be the dumbest article ever written in the history of this world.

[Jared Enderton]

Colin, first, thanks for posting it! Seriously.

Phil- you are absolutely right. IF your technique is perfect but you still suck, then you should absolutely spend a lot of time on getting stronger. You have to be strong to be a great weightlifter no doubt about it. I am with you on this.

[Jared Enderton]

INSTANTLY- I read the article and was like What the ****? He completely dismisses drugs, which, shows that he has zero knowledge of the whole olympic weightlifting set up/system. It shows he has no real knowledge of the inner workings of the sport. First, EVERYONE knows the US is one of only like 3 countries that has random OUT OF COMPETITION drug testing. Our hands are tied behind our backs. NO GOOD COUNTRIES HAVE THIS.

2nd- He dismisses drugs because he says that we're great at every other sport without drugs (basketball, etc). OLYMPIC WEIGHTLIFTING IS THE ONE SPORT WHERE IT IS PURELY STRENGTH RELATED. Drugs have the highest effect on this sport. He acts as if fricken ballet and weightlifting will give you the same effect from the drugs. I mean you can't dismiss this. It is the KEY main flaw in his argument. Drugs give you more for weightlifting (powerlifting, strongman as well) than any other sport. I mean you simply can't compare it to other sports int he olympics, steroids make you stronger...olympic weightlifting requires insane amounts of strength. hmm.

[brendanmoehn]

My opinion lies pretty closely to what Phil said and Jared's last comment. You won't get in anywhere in oly lifting without great technique, period. They are very technical lifts that take a lot of time to learn properly. Once the form is there it simply comes down to strength. A person can have perfect, flawless form, but without being strong it means nothing(who cares if you can snatch a hundred pounds with perfect technique if everyone around you is doing 2-3 times as much).

In plain and simple terms yes the U.S. sucks at Olympic lifting. Which is where Jared's comment comes into play. It is unfair to compare weightlifting to basketball in terms of drugs. Basketball would have very little carry over from performance enhancing drugs, whereas a pure strength sport(weightlifting) would get huge gains from them. Oly lifting is tested in the U.S. and leaves us trailing behind the other countries. If drugs were allowed for U.S. lifters, while being monitored closely for olympics, I believe we would be much better. He says we often win worlds in Powerlifting, which correct me if I'm wrong, is untested in the U.S.

Popularity of the sport plays another big role in the U.S. not being competitive. For example, in China where weightlifting is very popular, they choose kids when they are very young(8-13ish) and train them like professional athletes until they're ready for the olympics. Olympic athletes are often government supported. When they do this they get a big field of the best athletes in the nation whom all have the best genetics, work ethic, and drive to become the best. In the U.S., unless you randomly decide one day you want to work at weightlifting, you will likely never get exposed to it at a decent level.

[Jared Enderton]

VERY well said Brendan. Very concise thoughts.

Not to mention their best athletes want to be weightlifters. Our best athletes want to be basketball players, football players, baseball players, fighters, wrestlers, and golfers (yes, I Had to say golfers because of Tiger Woods being the greatest athlete alive).

[STOCKS]

I agree with all of your comments. Drugs and USADA play a big role. Our best athletes do not want to be weightlifters. The sport is not popular and does not have good youth programs. Form is extremely important. It doesn't matter how strong you are if you can't perform the lifts correctly.

This article was not written by an Olympic lifter. He doesn't really have any business writing this article. Does an O lifter have any business writing about the state of powerlifting? He comments that US powerlifters win world championships all the time. That's not that impressive when you consider how many powerlifting federations there are. O lifting has one federation, not 20. And powerlifting is a hundred times more popular in America than it is overseas. O lifting is the opposite.

The author mentions that O lifters train the competition lifts too much. He is obviously thinking like a powerlifter. O lifters can train the lifts often and at different intensities to make strength and technique gains. Powerlifters don't/shouldn't/can't bench, squat, and deadlift everyday, this doesn't mean O lifts can't snatch, clean, and jerk everyday. Powerlifting and weightlifting are two totally different sports. A weightlifter should not train like a powerlifter and vice versa. If weightlifters should adopt the conjugate system, then should powerlifters adopt the Bulgarian system?

[Simon klimesh]

I understand the "conjugate" system and I don't like it. Once again it makes me think of being in Waterloo and doing 80% assistance crap and then on Friday doing SN and CJ. Do the snatch balance, it will make your snatch better? Do the pulls, do the presses, do the dips, do the handstands, do the deadlifts, do the rows, it will make your snatch better? It might work for some but I just plain don't like it. Call me a specialist, but that's the way I am. In the end I think it's a choice. If you like variety, train variety. If you wanna specialize, then specialize. Have two coaches on the U.S Team. have one coach variety and the other coach specialization. Let the athletes go with which coach they have paralleling philosophies with and also let's see which coach produces.

[Jared Enderton]

Ya'll wanna hear it? Here it is...

1. we are 1 of like 3 countries who have a strict out of competition drug testing program

2. Most of our athletes "Fall" into weightlifting after their other goals/dreams/hopes fail...(usually at around age 18-23, or older)

3. It is not like wrestling/baseball/football where you start playing in K-1st grade. In other countries it IS like those sports where you do start to learn it very young. Our schools simply don't have the programs, in other countries kids get exposed to it at a very young age.

4. "Most" of our best athletes choose to play other sports (I said most so I don't offend anyone). They are extremely good football players, wrestlers, fighters, baseball players, basketball players, track stars, etc. Generally, if an athlete like that falls into weightlifting it is because they couldn't make it in their sport (3rd to 4th string), in which generally you're talking a whole different level of talent as well. Lifters hate hearing this argument...but it is what it is (true).

5. You can't underestimate the age at which people learn new things. It's like learning a new language, it's MUCH easier to learn it at a very young age because your brain is going through phases that allow for new learning much easier (There is a while scientific basis for this- I don't necessarily know it but do know it's way easier to learn things such as new languages when you're young). WE DOMINATE AT BASKETBALL in the olympics, yes. Our best kids also start playing it when they;re SUPER young. Do you think we'd dominate it if the majority started when they were 18-23? NO. We would get spanked.

6. Lack of a "unified" feeling in our country. Each individual training center needs to find a way to come together/compete with another to try to band together. We are at the bottom of the mountain looking UP at the mountain where the sun is directly behind it (we are blinded it seems). We need to bond together and make it ONE solid effort to move forward and try to make weightlifting in the US a priority and strong. When we are all separate and bickering on the internet/not unified at meets, etc, it makes the climb to the top that much harder. Many hands make light work.

7. I just made this a #7 because #6 was too long. We are in the TECHNOLOGY era.. My gosh. How can't we set it up so all of our main training centers run mock meets say every 3 weeks? (Olympic Training Center, Average Broz, LSU-Shreveport, California Strength, ECG, Lindenwood, N. Michigan, etc etc). Or, even just the top 4 clubs (so it makes it an extremely big deal to make it to one of those clubs so you can have access to that type of technology/competition all the time).

8. Our TOP coaches are all on OPPOSITE ends of the spectrum. Kyle Pierce's program is tons of strength exercises with snatch/cj throw in there (and he has the #1 lifter in the country). If you want a copy of his program I have it. Pendlays program is snatch/clean and jerk to a maximum every single day with squatting sprinkled in (and he has had several successful lifters on this). The OTC program (Zygmunt Smalcerz) is right between those two programs- Lots of accessory work- but different accessory work (more of a russian/polish style). Block work, hang work, lots of pulls, lots of squats, many positional type of exercises. Not much maxing out on the FULL lifts, but a lot of work at 85-95% consistently. It is really right between the two. Quite a bit of lifts, quite a bit of accessory type exercises.

Pendlays = be efficient. Pierce's = Be strong. Smalcerz's = Be a combination of the two

9. Our coaches won't come together to discuss differences/reasoning (it seems). Because they have found that their programming has worked for them, they are hesitant to listen to any feedback. Why fix what ain't broken they probably feel? Maybe they have come together, but just agreed to disagree? Every other country does have a "system" so it seems, that works fo rthem because the coaches can talk to each other and give constant feedback/critique/advice to each "personal" coaches based on their experiences with the SAME program with a different athlete. There is decades of experience with these coaches on the programming, whereas ours all have different programs so they can't really communicate for advice when you're comparing apples to oranges.

10. Lack of government/financial support. Their athletes are FULL TIME WEIGHTLIFTERS. Massage, ice bath, chiro, physical therapy facilities, dorms, full dining facilities, etc etc. Many of our athletes work full time jobs and do weightlifting after work. We don't have the access to that type of schedule/facilities like they do. They live, breath, eat, sleep weightlifting. We spend 3 hours of our day weightlifting, and the rest on our other "job." Think of how much time a professional football player spends during the week preparing for the game on sunday. They're at the facility at 7am and don't leave until 9pm often times during the week. Our BEST weightlifters spend anywhere from 2-5 hours a day in the gym. Other countries spend 2-5 hours a day on RECOVERY alone a day (chiro, massage, naps, cold tub/hot tub/sauna/more massage/stretching), let alone TRAINING.

11. Our athletes expectations suck. We expect to suck and to lose.

[Jared Enderton]

Simon, to that I respond:

How is Bulgaria currently doing with their system?

My follow up questions are:

How are the Chinese doing?
How are the Russians doing?
How are the Polish doing?
How are the Belorussians doing?
How are the Kazakhstan athletes doing?
How are the Koreans doing?

^They^ don't train "Bulgarian" style.

Simplicity (Bularian program) + massive amounts of drugs used to be the ticket...Now, small amount of drugs + complexity is the ticket. The proof is in the puddin'

PS- Stocks- you are SPOT on with your post. I couldn't have said it better myself.

[Simon klimesh]

Jared, Russian and Kazakhstan lifters train like the former Bulgarians. Just a little FYI. I was just giving my little 2 cents about the article. You know me, I don't like periodization or variety. I'm all about the HARDCORE Bulgarian training. That's just me man, that's who I am. I'm that guy. You be you and I'll be me. Sometimes I regret chiming in cuz it's like everyone knows my view already. I'm straight up snatch and clean and jerk, singles, to the maximum. That's what I do.

[Jared Enderton]

No, Russian and Kazakh lifters do not train like the former bulgarians. They have periodization and do many lifters other than strictly 3-6 exercises. I have spoken to Glenn at length about both of these systems (and he has spoken at length to their coaches). The russians are said to use almost more exercises than the chinese even do.

And when I say BULGARIAN- I mean strict bulgarian, like 3 main movements (sn/cj/fs) + 3 others (ps/pc/bs). That's it.

[Jared Enderton]

I'm not trying to PERSUADE you Simon, I think it is great for discussion!

Are you happy with your results on that system the last year? To my knowledge you have increased your snatch 1kg since last May, is that correct? It might be 2kg (non-strapped). Honestly, I am just asking you to think about it a little bit...

I am glad you chimed in! That's what discussion forums are for. I know you will probably always be bulgarian style based. However, with me wanting to see you progress I Try to "prod" you from time to time to think about it. And, each time you get stronger in your beliefs that Bulgarian is the way to go despite not seeing ANY results whatsoever from it. I need to stop haha- I just try to ask ya questions- but I probably offend you without trying to (I have good intentions of trying to see you improve).

Bulgarian training is like still believing smoking won't harm you (like back in the day). It has been found out many moons ago that it does harm you. It's old news. It has been found out many moons ago that STRICT bulgarian training doesn't work in todays era.

[phil]

What about Olympic Track and Field? Just like in Oly lifting a lot of technique is needed and the U.S. is always pretty good at track and field. It's also a sport where steroids help a lot. In 2008 we had several top three finishes in the sprints and throwing events.
I don't know anything about Olympic lifting but track and field seems like a good thing to compare it to. I don't think anyone dreams of becoming a track star when they are growing up. I don't know of any youth shot put programs either. They is a lot of money and popularity however.....