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Post by lillianreptilian on Mar 29, 2010 16:54:37 GMT -5
Hmm...maybe I'll talk to Roger about tweaking my program to be more like that one. It's pretty similar already. I'm honestly not sure I gain much from pulls other than confidence. However, I probably benefit from the added strength.
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Post by Jared Enderton on Mar 29, 2010 18:39:42 GMT -5
That is a good point roz... you could change one lift and call it the "americanized" version... I agree. You are right- whatever system you believe in- just go for it and don't look back. The reason I favor the bulgarian program is because it has me doing the actual lifts more often than any other program. Since I am such a newbie- and the movement patterns are so difficult to get down right away (Especially at an older age)- I should be doing the lifts as often as possible (Every single workout). Any other movement I do will just be a missed opportunity for me to do the actual movement that is done in competition and to reinforce the movement patterns necessary.
That is just my thinking- it really makes a difference for me that I Started so late- had I Started earlier who knows what system I would favor- but since I am a late starter I know my clock is ticking so I gotta do the lifts as frequently as possible.
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olyroz77
Junior Member
2012 Olympic Hopeful
Posts: 76
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Post by olyroz77 on Mar 30, 2010 11:02:26 GMT -5
my mindset as a coach is this,
When you begin into weightlifting, you should learn the Big Three: Full Snatch, Clean & Jerk and Front squat pretty well. This "learning process" stage (we can call stage 1) should go on for about 2-3 months. If you are not being coached, BE PATIENT, you will want to jump into other lifts: ie- Back Squat, Pulls, Presses, etc. but don't. Think of it this way every missed Full clean is a great pull or power clean, same with the snatch. A crappy pull from there is probably a not to bad deadlift. So in that during stage 1 you are getting a bunch of different lifts in but one thinking about 3 and only 3.
If you are being coached, make sure you and your coach are on the same page in which the reigns (weights) are being held back until both, coach and lifter, are confident and able to do the lifts *in your sleep. Also a side note is to TRUST YOUR COACH. I cannot stress that enough. The more you buy into the philosophy of the coach the better both of you can preform. Think of it as a Gerneral leading an army into war. The army that will live and die for a general are most often the ones with the most success...(in my head that sounds really good)
Ok onto Stage 2 (the experimenting phase), which will involve using a few more lifts. These lifts should be treated like medicine, only used when needed to fix a problem. The idea that you can "overdose" is very really if you get away from the Big Three lifts. Some of these Medicinal lifts are, but not limited to, Power Clean/Snatch, Snatch/Clean Pulls, Back Squats, Presses, Hang Snatch/Clean, etc.
They are treated like medicine in that, lets say for example your your pull for your snatch gets away from your hips. A good curing lift would be doing pulls from the floor making sure to "find the hips" or hang snatch in which it starts on your hips already. During these Stage 2 workouts you should always be doing the Big Three before and if possible after the medicinal lifts. This will allow you to find the problem, cure it, and have a check-up on the full lift again. Treating the lifts like this will allow you to fix the problem as it arrises then continue on to the training regimine.
For the Last Stage, in my mindset, (the shake up phase). This I like to think of as a shock phase doing some different lifts to put more stress on the body and mind. Lifts in this stage would be putting several lifts together, ie-Power Snatch, Hang Snatch, Full Snatch. Doing lifts that stress the mind more allow the body to keep having to adapt. How you catch a Power Snatch, Hang, and Full are going to be different everytime with different weights. This allows your body to have to learn how to lift and feel the bar and your body. This is not so much a hugely body tiring workout, but a mind tiring workout. But it allows you to really allow yourself to learn what a lift should "Feel" like and not just lift the bar type workout.
After this final stage you can revert back to stage 1 and keeping hitting the Big Three. Then proceed into each stage accordingly. Again if you are lifting on your own, you really have to rely on what your body is feeling and how fatigued your mind is. If you have a coach, the coach can often see in your attitude, lifting, crankyness, etc. when you should move on or hold back.
Again this is just my two cents, but it is not the Americanized anything. Just things I have picked up along my lifting journey so far. Yes this might and most likely will change, but for right now this just seems right to me. If you wanna try it out, go right ahead, let me know how it goes. Would be great for feedback.
Also Jared, I think this went a little longer than I thought it would, I enjoy rambling, but this might not be a bad article to stick on the website. Just some random thoughts from a regular joe. I am not expert coach by any means, but I enjoy letting people know what I am thinking...
So that is the end, good luck in all your training endevours.
Coach Adam Rozmenoski
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Post by lillianreptilian on Mar 30, 2010 12:22:38 GMT -5
This is fantastic! Would definitely be good posted as an article.
I guess I am in Stage 2, where 80-90% of my time is spent on the Big 3, with some other stuff added when I need to work on a specific problem.
The trusting the coach part is a good point too. At first Roger's program seemed way too simplistic to me, but now I like it a lot and I've made a lot of improvement on it.
As a beginner I've found that it's important to really challenge myself with the squats because there are many days where I can't snatch or cj enough to get that heavy stimulus.
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olyroz77
Junior Member
2012 Olympic Hopeful
Posts: 76
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Post by olyroz77 on Mar 30, 2010 13:36:13 GMT -5
Another great point about the needed to sqt. bc not enough technical ability to stress heavy with Snatch and/or Clean and Jerk.
One thing I will do is, especially with clean and jerk, Full clean the wgt, stand it up, front sqt, then jerk. That would equall one rep. This can be done for end of the workout, the entire workout, or even a recov. day. Multiple sets and reps can be used, although of course urging nothing over 3 reps for oly movements,(who can keep count past 3 anywho)
Again just my 1.75 cents. I am not a wealthy man....
Rozzy McFly---> Heck ya a Back to the Future refreance....
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Post by vincedecker on Mar 30, 2010 17:39:06 GMT -5
Not that I don't see the Bulg. program, chinese, or russian to be incredibly superior to the American, but I feel that these Americanized Bulg Programs and such or just silly. I think that if you have a program idea as a coach or athlete and it looks like another program but is not, it shouldnt be called the americanized --- program. It should be your program. You think when a country saw what the bulg were doing and adopted similar ideas they chose to still the word Bulgarian in it...i doubt it. Just like a Russian Squat program. I feel there is no respect for any american ideas or lifters...I understand where we sit in the realm of things, but being followers will only keep us behind. Stand up for your ideas and training regimin. Be proud and lift what you can when you can. Just my 2 cents... ROZZLE Where in the article and schedule of workouts do you ever see the term "Americanized version". This is a straight up Bulgarian program from a former Bulgarian national coach. A former olympic medalist as well. Definitely not silly. This is only for elite - level lifters and posting the link is not meant to say all other programs are wrong. www.csanutrition.com/guides_training.htm# |
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Post by vincedecker on Mar 30, 2010 17:44:42 GMT -5
Coach Roz- that was a great article/post on your philosophy. Thanks.
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olyroz77
Junior Member
2012 Olympic Hopeful
Posts: 76
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Post by olyroz77 on Mar 30, 2010 18:53:11 GMT -5
I'm not knocking this program, i guess I am just sick of people tweeking countries' programs and calling them americanized. I am familiar with the bulgarian program and it is something else. A program that has created champions, people cannot argue that. Just saying it is not my thing to take a program and water it down and then call it americanized. Sorry if i offended, i didn't mean to.
Out
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Post by vincedecker on Mar 30, 2010 21:34:08 GMT -5
No problem. Just couldn't see how this fit the "Americanized version" bill. I thought it was a pretty cool find.  Glad you are posting again. |
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Post by Jared Enderton on Mar 31, 2010 10:07:18 GMT -5
Wow... this is why I love having the forum. That is a great take on it and worded very well. I will post it in the article section!
This is exactly why I want to build this into a small community of lifters... that is some info that you can't get from many people anywhere else unless you really pry for it. Great stuff Roz.
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olyroz77
Junior Member
2012 Olympic Hopeful
Posts: 76
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Post by olyroz77 on Mar 31, 2010 10:19:09 GMT -5
the words just started and wouldn't stop, I hope to have more ramblings in the future. Again they are just my two cents, I feel i have a lot of growth still as a coach, but enjoy giving my insight and having it discussed.
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Post by Jared Enderton on Apr 1, 2010 9:01:18 GMT -5
That post is now an article in the articles section on the home page!
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Post by Simon klimesh on May 6, 2010 16:03:43 GMT -5
What do y'all think of this heavy singles program by Duane Hansen? danjohn.net/pdfs/best.pdfIt seems very reasonable to me, especially since it recognizes that most people work out 3 days a week and don't live at SECRET SOVIET TRAINING CAMPS. It's similar to what Roger has me doing, though I don't always do so many sets and I often do pulls and jerk recoveries as well. wow great article Duane! I printed this one off for sure! |
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